-
Website
http://tangerinetoad.blogspot.com/ -
Original page
http://tangerinetoad.blogspot.com/2009/10/fear-and-loathing-in-adland.html -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
All Comments
At the end of the day, the whole traditional advertising is made on the premise "my idea is better than yours" - because people are paid a lot of money to have "better" ideas.
People in digital marketing are way less proprietary about their ideas - because they get (comparably) way less money for them.
At least on Adweek some people say what they think.
A good number of the comments on AdAge.com seem to be little more than an excuse to shill for some non-relevant blog or portfolio site, rather than bringing anything meaningful to the discussion at hand.
"Great article, Adam! I really enjoyed your insight!"
Signed,
earnbigmoneykerningtypeathome.blogspot.com
I don't think the problem you highlight is just something that manifests itself in advertising alone, though certainly there is a kind of class system of advertising that negates certain people's opinions.
And if a person isn't willing to put a signature at the bottom of a vitriolic stream...then they really can't be all that serious about the point they are making.
The internet is breeding a generation of sucker punchers. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer people who look you in the eye when taking a swing.
I promise you, the people who shout the loudest absolutes veiled in anonymity on posts like this are always the quiet ones in real life situations.
If they are looking for a way to let off steam...I suggest a nice game of squash.
Galen Bernard
Creative
Still, the bulk of the money is still flowing to traditional agencies for traditional media and despite getting the lion's share of press, the budgets given to digital agencies is considerably smaller.
@Craig, Stephen, Len, Galen & Nick: It is indeed too bad that advertising types can't have a civil conversation online. As I said, I suspect that's a function of the subjective nature of our business and the widely-held presumption that "anyone can do this."
When people are being paid lots of money to do something with no real measurable results (e.g. doctors save lives, lawyers win cases) there's bound to be a lot of insecurity. The changes wrought by the Real Digital Revolution may indeed change all that, but it'll be a slow change, not an immediate one.
On the digital side it's the love of technology and making things move and look cool...for no apparent reason whatsoever.
And on the traditional side the conviction that everything has to have 'an idea' in order to be valuable. Despite the rise of brands like Amazon or Whole Foods who thrive without too much help from traditional tv advertising. Even Apple owes most of its success to things like customer service,product design and in-store design rather than TV spots.
Toad, why did you – and even AdBroad – remain anonymous for quite some time? Perhaps you’ve been away from the big agencies too long. As you know, it’s frowned upon by management for employees to publicly appear at blogs and sites – even to simply congratulate someone. So there’s the professional aspect. (Plus, it also reveals that you might be surfing sites/blogs on company time – something companies/agencies have even been known to monitor and also frown upon).
Related to this is another professional aspect you have dealt with yourself. That is, your opinions do not reflect the opinions or positions of your agency/employer. It’s not easy to type that disclaimer on every comment you leave. Additionally, your employer is put in an uneasy position as well, especially if you’ve got a strong opinion about something.
The first two points are most critical for BDA residents. Sometimes it isn’t fear and loathing. Sometimes it’s actually professional courtesy.
Another aspect involves what you’ve even recognized as the online lunatics. How many times have we seen someone make the most innocuous or positive comment, only to get ripped to shreds by the crazies? Comments are not like farting during a meeting, where the smell and memory eventually fade. What’s online stays online – usually forever.
Finally, the presumption that anonymous commentators are somehow wrong or defective is just plain silly. There can be legitimate reasons, as discussed above. The whiners complaining about anonymous comments are so old school. Get over it. In the end, it shows a basic lack of understanding about the digital space. No one controls it. It’s the ultimate diversity, where everyone is equal and has a voice. I find the ones who are irritated by these things probably have issues with diversity too – as well as the cultural changes ignited by present-day and evolving technology.
With all due respect, Toad, for someone who started out anonymous to question or criticize others who elect to remain anonymous shows a certain level of, um, insensitivity.
All the best, dude.
Your post, sadly, reaffirms how behind the times most BDAs are. The world has changed a lot in the last two years. Most of the digital agencies I work with expect their employees to have a robust social media presence and are baffled by the notion that a BDA creative director would be furious to see one of his minions congratulating a former co-worker.
Hence the title of the post "Fear and Loathing in Adland"
P.S., I haven't been here in a bit, but must remark your commenting process is the most cumbersome, invasive and user-unfriendly I've ever encountered.
Which has always been part of your unique charm;)
Nasty anonymous blog comments on gossip sites do indeed come from anywhere and everywhere, but they are a lot different that writing "Congratulations, buddy" on a news story on Adweek
As for Disqus, it's one of the most widely used commenting platforms. But given your evaluation of it, I will deem it a high compliment that you've taken the trouble to respond. Twice.
Which has always been part of your unique charm.
Nasty anonymous blog comments on gossip sites are a lot different that
"Congratulations, buddy" on Adweek.
As for Disqus, it's one of the most widely used commenting platforms.
But given your evaluation of it, I should be quite flattered you've
taken the trouble to respond.
Twice.
Perhaps your disdain for advertising agencies is twisting your reasoning here.
Besides, anonymous commentators are not exclusive to our industry. Take a look at sites like Gawker. Or even the comments left at major online newspapers. People are constantly spewing anonymous bile into the Web. And anonymous praise too. It’s just a part of the digital landscape.
Also consider the fact that advertising people are inherently anonymous. The awful AMC series Mad Men just aired an episode where Don Draper was “outed” by his wife. Think of the heavy-handed symbolism there. Adpeople are not accustomed to going public – except when awards are involved.
Finally, stop stereotyping anonymous commentators. Visit George Parker’s blog. The overwhelming majority of his commentators are anonymous; and contrary to the perceptions, they are as thoughtful and provocative as the non-anonymous commentators – and many are more thoughtful and provocative. Additionally, anonymous commentators are far more entertaining. The next non-anonymous commentator that draws a laugh from me will be the first. Non-anonymous commentators like to sign their names—with links to their blogs, lame websites, LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook. I wish more of these self-promoting wonks would go anonymous. It’s hard to take their comments seriously when it’s clear they are only seeking to draw attention to themselves versus ideas and issues.
Regarding your comments process, it’s definitely the most cumbersome. I was tempted to simply email my comments directly to you for the second one and this one. The first comment actually resulted in sending spam from you – which any user experience architect will tell you is not a smart thing to do. I’m only putting up with the hassle ‘cause we’re old pals. Any other site, and I’d be outta here. Cheers.
Not talking "negative commenters." Did not mention it in the post at all.
Just wondering why POSITIVE commenters were afraid to leave their names on a message as banal as "congrats, buddy"
Nothing more. Nothing less.
BTW: What sort of spam did you get from Disqus. I've near heard of that before. They are having some issues this week, it may be part of it - if you can forward the email to me, I've found they are quite helpful in clearing these things up.
As for Disqus, sorry, Alan have to agree with HJ. For first time users, it's painful. But HJ, take heart: posting gets less onerous the more you use the system. Like most curmudgeons, it grows friendlier once it gets to know you.
For starters, your post is critical of ad people. Even your presumption that people are “scared” and “afraid” is judgmental. Additionally, a number of comments in the thread referenced anonymous negative comments, so I was not the only person to read beyond whatever you thought you were communicating. Even AdBroad went there. My initial reaction was that this post is connected to another post you wrote on negative comments (can’t recall the title – you posted it here and at Agency Spy).
I’ll admit that my comments might not be completely coherent, but I’m not attempting to write a post – rather, I’m just dropping reactions. If you condense what I’m trying to say, the answers to your “Why are ad people loathe to identify themselves?” question include:
1. The need to remain anonymous because we do not represent our agencies on blogs and sites – and if you’re at a BDA, you will likely be frowned upon by management, which is increasingly paranoid about online communications. Hell, in most BDAs, employees are strictly forbidden from even taking phone calls from the press – you are instructed to forward any inquiry to the communications director. It doesn’t matter if you’re ripping someone or congratulating Curt Detweiler. BDAs don’t want their employees going public online without permission. Go talk to anyone at, say, Draftfcb, and you’ll see. Honestly, when’s the last time you’ve seen Draftfcb or Ogilvy workers openly posting online? There’s a reason, and it’s not about fear. It’s about professional courtesy and even company rules.
2. Online lunatics will rip you for anything, especially if they have a grudge against the person you might be congratulating. Again, Parker recently pulled an entire post for essentially this reason.
3. The fact that the Web is forever. If you even make a typo, people will judge you.
4. The overall desire to retain your privacy. This might be the best and biggest reason. It even boils down to my irritation at receiving an email when leaving a comment here. As you should know, privacy remains a primary concern for everyone on the Web. Seth Godin will give people email addresses where he can be contacted, but you’re not going to get his personal email address or home address.
Now, my next issue involves my belief that you posed a defective question. That is, you presume it’s an advertising people thing. It’s like asking, “When’s the last time you beat your wife?” Your question is filled with erroneous presumptions. I insist this goes beyond advertising to include digital people too. You might think digital people appear more open, but it’s likely because you hang out with the digital people who are mostly self-promoters. They’re open because they’re selling – with their blog links, Twitter ids, etc. And they are only a small segment of digital people. But the total issue of anonymity stretches further to include the entire public on nearly every blog or site in existence. It’s not just when people leave negative comments. It’s for any comment. There are too many lunatics on the Web. But more importantly, people want to retain their privacy and avoid getting spammed, having their IP addresses and other details collected, revealing their home locations, etc.
Regarding your comments process, you’re actually compounding the issue by now asking me to forward the email and detail my experience. It’s not my problem to fix. If you don’t realize what your system is doing – and even AdBroad noted it’s cumbersome – you need to look into it. Again, the annoyed public will simply leave and/or not bother commenting. Cheers.
First, there’s a great story about the hazards of speaking out without your agency’s approval right here: http://madisonavenew.com/
It’s pretty amazing how far we have NOT come.
As another example in this area, I recall a chief creative officer in Chicago who started a blog in the past year or so – and he admitted that the agency communications director must read everything he writes prior to posting. I’ll forgo mentioning his name, but his official title is chairman. And his shop, while part of a global network, would hardly qualify as a BDA (although they likely wish they were, at least from a billings perspective).
The other point to consider is that advertising people are far less involved in the digital space than you even realize. In the past few years, I’ve seen plenty of ad people – extraordinarily talented and successful – being laid off. And it’s always surprising to discover how many of them have little or no digital presence; that is, they have no websites, no LinkedIn account, etc. So it’s not even in their nature to post a congratulatory message (which actually makes Detweiler’s 50+ comments suspicious – or perhaps his pals were simply seeking to show support and offset any of the negative lunatics). When sending sentiments, ad people usually go the old-fashioned route of email or, heaven forbid, calling an actual human being. Hell, I’ve been known to even send a card – or flowers, if the promoted woman is really good-looking.
Again, my overall position is the answer to your global question has more components than you realize. And making value judgments about your hunches is not fair – or smart, if you really hope to someday serve as a much-needed consultant with ad agencies.
And this is definitely my last comment on this thread.
Cheers.